Comments on: When Java is dead http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/ Your zero step program Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:37:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Tony http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-150969 Tony Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:27:49 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-150969 <p>You only wish Java were dead. Everything that can be done with .Net can be done with (J2EE) Java at a licensing cost of $0. You can't beat free my friend. Also, .Net lacks the enormous amount of open source libraries, projects, frameworks, etc, that are available in the Java world. Just take a look at the Apache site or SourceForge, they have APIs for even the weirdest task you can think of. .Net will never catchup to Java in this perspective, because the Micro$oft mindset in anti-open source. Java is driven by passion, .Net is driven by money. Passion always wins.</p> <p>Java even offers you more to choose from in the IDE world. You want a "Fisher Price" looking IDE like Visual Studios, Java has Netbeans, you want something more advanced, use Eclipse or IntelliJ. You want an IDE that supports Perl, PHP, Ruby, and more, you can only find this in Netbeans and Eclipse. You want an IDE that has a slew of free plug-ins, you can only find this in Eclipse, Netbeans and IntelliJ.</p> <p>I have worked with .Net (C#) using Visual Studios, J2EE (Java) using Eclipse, Netbeans, and IntelliJ, and I can honestly tell you that I prefer Java. I base my decision on everything that I have mentioned above.</p> You only wish Java were dead. Everything that can be done with .Net can be done with (J2EE) Java at a licensing cost of $0. You can’t beat free my friend. Also, .Net lacks the enormous amount of open source libraries, projects, frameworks, etc, that are available in the Java world. Just take a look at the Apache site or SourceForge, they have APIs for even the weirdest task you can think of. .Net will never catchup to Java in this perspective, because the Micro$oft mindset in anti-open source. Java is driven by passion, .Net is driven by money. Passion always wins.

Java even offers you more to choose from in the IDE world. You want a “Fisher Price” looking IDE like Visual Studios, Java has Netbeans, you want something more advanced, use Eclipse or IntelliJ. You want an IDE that supports Perl, PHP, Ruby, and more, you can only find this in Netbeans and Eclipse. You want an IDE that has a slew of free plug-ins, you can only find this in Eclipse, Netbeans and IntelliJ.

I have worked with .Net (C#) using Visual Studios, J2EE (Java) using Eclipse, Netbeans, and IntelliJ, and I can honestly tell you that I prefer Java. I base my decision on everything that I have mentioned above.

]]> By: Jimmythesaint http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-149988 Jimmythesaint Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:36:35 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-149988 <p>I don't see how you can say java is dead. Client side, applets etc maybe but server side its hugs. J2EE is massive - how many sites run on it still about 30% market share.</p> <p>Why would i want to pay licenses for everything msoft when i can deploy a enterprise scale java based solution that can run on the linux i choose and not pay license fees. </p> <p>The open source aspect and the size of the community is vast.</p> I don’t see how you can say java is dead. Client side, applets etc maybe but server side its hugs. J2EE is massive - how many sites run on it still about 30% market share.

Why would i want to pay licenses for everything msoft when i can deploy a enterprise scale java based solution that can run on the linux i choose and not pay license fees.

The open source aspect and the size of the community is vast.

]]> By: infocyde http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-134428 infocyde Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:35:36 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-134428 <p>I know this is an old thread, but...</p> <p>@John Perry. I'm with you man. I constantly hear buzz words like scalable, robust, blah blah blah. With the new tech, I have to constantly keep up with things...not good enough to know the tech anymore, but now I have to know paradims about how to apply the tech, and if I don't follow those paradims my code is now "ucky" to the hip hop herd of next gen programmers, even though typically my code works just as well as my "agile" counter parts, and somehow I get it done faster and follow on programmers can look at it and understand what I'm trying to do. I'm not against OOP and all (I use simple business and data objects all the time), but in web development ultimately we are taking data, storing data, and displaying data. We can make that as simple or as complex as we feel like. Me, I like to stick to KISS, but sometimes KISS programming doesn't looks as good on a resume. And with the younger gen, it is a lot about hype and form over substance. It doesn't mean that there aren't brilliant younger programmers, there are, but I think programming has finally become main stream enough so that we suffer from fads. </p> <p>Oh yeah, on Java, it was the right idea. Develop apps against a runtime instead of HTML in a browser. That we you have a full programming language with 100's of prebuilt classes to help you along. Sounds like concepts behind Silverlight and Flex huh? Java was just batched, and M$ leveled its sights at Sun early on. So far the only company to stand against M$ is Apple, which is both a blessing and a curse.</p> I know this is an old thread, but…

@John Perry. I’m with you man. I constantly hear buzz words like scalable, robust, blah blah blah. With the new tech, I have to constantly keep up with things…not good enough to know the tech anymore, but now I have to know paradims about how to apply the tech, and if I don’t follow those paradims my code is now “ucky” to the hip hop herd of next gen programmers, even though typically my code works just as well as my “agile” counter parts, and somehow I get it done faster and follow on programmers can look at it and understand what I’m trying to do. I’m not against OOP and all (I use simple business and data objects all the time), but in web development ultimately we are taking data, storing data, and displaying data. We can make that as simple or as complex as we feel like. Me, I like to stick to KISS, but sometimes KISS programming doesn’t looks as good on a resume. And with the younger gen, it is a lot about hype and form over substance. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t brilliant younger programmers, there are, but I think programming has finally become main stream enough so that we suffer from fads.

Oh yeah, on Java, it was the right idea. Develop apps against a runtime instead of HTML in a browser. That we you have a full programming language with 100’s of prebuilt classes to help you along. Sounds like concepts behind Silverlight and Flex huh? Java was just batched, and M$ leveled its sights at Sun early on. So far the only company to stand against M$ is Apple, which is both a blessing and a curse.

]]> By: JFool http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-40863 JFool Mon, 14 May 2007 03:15:34 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-40863 <p>dp shows a nice example of capitalizing on the "Long Tail" of Java. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The<em>Long</em>Tail</p> <p>It's only a matter of Java's burn rate. </p> <p>Unlike the liquid stock market where you can SELL NOW, Java has momentum due to huge it's investment, pride, and ego.</p> dp shows a nice example of capitalizing on the “Long Tail” of Java.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheLongTail

It’s only a matter of Java’s burn rate.

Unlike the liquid stock market where you can SELL NOW, Java has momentum due to huge it’s investment, pride, and ego.

]]> By: dp http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-16778 dp Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:29:34 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-16778 <p>Hmm, if Java is dead why'd I make $200k programming new apps last year?</p> Hmm, if Java is dead why’d I make $200k programming new apps last year?

]]> By: bob http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-8116 bob Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:49:46 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-8116 <p>I'd wager that the assembly language will outlive most current languages.</p> I’d wager that the assembly language will outlive most current languages.

]]> By: rvw http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-455 rvw Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:24:40 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-455 <p>wake up 2: java is already dead. Microsoft killed java with their dotnet stuff and now it is removed from all browsers as well. Never let a hardware company like sun design a software language. javascript is a completely different story. Javascript will outlive java</p> wake up 2: java is already dead. Microsoft killed java with their dotnet stuff and now it is removed from all browsers as well. Never let a hardware company like sun design a software language. javascript is a completely different story. Javascript will outlive java

]]> By: NA http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-412 NA Wed, 19 Oct 2005 00:25:42 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-412 <p>Wake up guys. Java is the most popular language. Check this out, http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm If Java is dead, what does it say about other languages which are less popularl? Someone claims ide for java are not written in java. NetBeans, Eclipse and more recent versions of JBuilder are written in Java.</p> Wake up guys. Java is the most popular language. Check this out, http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
If Java is dead, what does it say about other languages which are less popularl? Someone claims ide
for java are not written in java. NetBeans, Eclipse and more recent versions of JBuilder are written in
Java.

]]> By: John Perry http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-387 John Perry Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:30:04 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-387 <p>Dr. X's experience (a six week VB app. took a year to rewrite in Java) has that ring of truth. I've been in CS since 1975 and I'm just sick to death of the paradigm-a-holic OOPsters demanding that the fastest way from Los Angeles to San Francisco is by way of Denver. </p> <p>Keep your damned 5,6,7-layered inheritance stacks away from my code ... PLEASE!!!! I'll be leaving CS in a few years because the stench of the code-bloaters and the feature-creepers is choking my oxygen supply.</p> <p>Even the C99 committee has added arcane garbage to the language. Can anybody in CS leave well enough alone?? No. And the proof is the coming of Perl 6 which will .... destroy and confuse the Perl community. What they're doing is like Kernighan changing an assignment from = to := "just because it is OUR language".</p> <p>No wonder kids don't want to major in CS. You have to read five times more stuff than the Talmud just to become a middling practitioner. This isn't encouraging THINKING. It's mindless rote. It doesn't leave enough leftover brain CPU power for THINKING. It exhausts without enlivening.</p> <p>CS ... the self-destructive field.</p> <p>John Perry</p> Dr. X’s experience (a six week VB app. took a year to rewrite in
Java) has that ring of truth. I’ve been in CS since 1975 and I’m
just sick to death of the paradigm-a-holic OOPsters demanding
that the fastest way from Los Angeles to San Francisco is by
way of Denver.

Keep your damned 5,6,7-layered inheritance stacks away from
my code … PLEASE!!!! I’ll be leaving CS in a few years because
the stench of the code-bloaters and the feature-creepers is
choking my oxygen supply.

Even the C99 committee has added arcane garbage to the language.
Can anybody in CS leave well enough alone?? No. And the proof is
the coming of Perl 6 which will …. destroy and confuse the Perl
community. What they’re doing is like Kernighan changing an
assignment from = to := “just because it is OUR language”.

No wonder kids don’t want to major in CS. You have to read five
times more stuff than the Talmud just to become a middling
practitioner. This isn’t encouraging THINKING. It’s mindless rote.
It doesn’t leave enough leftover brain CPU power for THINKING.
It exhausts without enlivening.

CS … the self-destructive field.

John Perry

]]> By: Dr X http://madbean.com/2003/mb2003-42/#comment-353 Dr X Fri, 24 Jun 2005 21:30:06 +0000 http://madbean.com/blog/2003-42#comment-353 <p>Java is dead. How about this real world fact. I designed, documented and developed an application in VB that took a month in a half. Later, a seasoned Java developer that works for the company converted my app to Java, it took them A YEAR to convert my app. Now it's slow, less automated, and buggy. Way to save money, convert everything to Java, REAL smart! and that's just the tip of the iceburg, let Java sink like the Titanic</p> Java is dead. How about this real world fact. I designed, documented and developed an application in VB
that took a month in a half. Later, a seasoned Java developer that works for the company converted my app to
Java, it took them A YEAR to convert my app. Now it’s slow, less automated, and buggy. Way to save money,
convert everything to Java, REAL smart! and that’s just the tip of the iceburg, let Java sink like the Titanic

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